On the Track of the North Carolina Mountain Lions
88Mountain Lion track in mud
An Unexpected Surprise
Splash! I saw it jump while kneeling on a natural earth bridge across Fishing Creek, about ten miles below Mt. Airy, N.C.(or Mayberry to some, being the hometown of Andy Griffith). It was a warm day back then in 1988.
I was about a mile down the fifteen foot wide creek, when a very big Small- mouthed Bass made a leap beside a partially sunken tree limb; probably at some flitting insect.
With some Georgia Wigglers and a Zebco rod n reel in hand there was really no other alternative but to try and catch that monster.
The only problem was how to get close enough to toss that hopefully enticing worm near the limb without snagging the hook. On the side it was on there was a ten foot sloping embankment covered in foliage and other difficult-type obstructions, so that side was out.
On the other side, however, it would be about a thirty foot way through thick brambles, bushes and stinger plants. The latter was chosen and a stout stick was found as a poor substitute for a machete, but it did the job.
When the area was at last reached, almost right across from where the fish had jumped, there appeared a small break in the tangles where five or six feet from the creek a clear mud bank ascended up a couple of feet or so to level ground.
At the moment of looking at it,- I saw a sight that was not only surprising but nearly left me plumb dumbstruck. The big bass wasn't going to see any Georgia wiggly worms right away, nor were any other fish for that matter.
What I beheld in the middle of that fresh, smooth mud, was without even a close inspection, the biggest cat track I'd ever seen in the wild bar none. On eying it closer my amazement went up some more, for then I was absolutely sure- knowing the native animal tracks pretty well- that this was no big bobcats or even a large dogs.
The print, perfectly formed and recent, set the mind to pondering then and for ever after. It was as best could be measured with the fingers 3 x 3 1/2 and probably closer to 10 or 10 1/2 square inches.
From that day on, the significance of the discovery aside, the assumption that the big mountain cats no longer roamed those parts, was gone for good. And so was I with angling for the day.
Before we proceed further a few things are in order. Fishing Creek was at the time at least, a low populated area of Surrey County, N.C. The creek itself for at least a good mile and a half - perhaps even further- had no housing or commercial development.
It was covered on the side the cat approached from with a hilly and heavily wooded expanse. The other side it went up the small bank on, had a field interspersed with copses of pines and maybe some hardwoods.
The area itself abutted right up close to the Blue Ridge Mountains and was full of small game with a healthy deer population. The big cat had crossed the water at the hardest, most inaccessible spot on the entire length of the big creek I was familiar with.
It was definitely a spot no man or dog in their right mind, unless by an extremely unusual situation, would ever be near. There was even that dirt bridge not thirty feet away. Why would it choose the most difficult place to cross?
The Mysterious North Carolina Appalachian Mountains
The Recent Announcement
Recently the U.S. Fish and Wildlife department formally announced the Eastern Cougar extinct. Yes, the American Eastern Cougar is now extinct- presumably meaning east of the Mississippi. Perhaps they are, perhaps not.
Ever since the Vietnam War and Watergate a majority of the American people have rightly been rather hesitant to believe absolutely, and without question, certain official announcements.
This is not meant to say all such announcements are in error, or disparage the many truthful, hard- working and excellent people who work in an official capacity, its just a factual statement available for reading in many popular history books, TV shows, and on the internet.
Since the subject of this pro non-extinct article is so lengthy in encounters and such through out it's 2,000 plus mile length, we shall concentrate on the mountains of North Carolina.
However, the two old anecdotal stories and all the sighting history in N.C. could speak for many other areas along this very ancient chain of mountains. The mountains of eastern West Virgina and north Georgia in particular for the Southern section.
Circa 1910 Panther Hunt
A Couple of Anecdotal Histories
Mountain Lions, or "Painters", as they were often called in the past; were rather numerous up until the 20th century. Unrestricted hunting- with bounty's paid for the "varmints",- and the extensive logging of the robber baron companies, took a heavy toll.
Even what is now the Great Smoky Mountains National Park was near half cleared; but the North Carolina mountains still retained steep and forested areas thousands of square miles in extent.
The Smokey's greatest 1900s hunter and guide- a man who knew the region better than anyone else- was once asked if he'd ever been lost in them. His answer went something like: 'Well, not exactly, but I have been known to wander 'round and 'round them a bit at times."
The following is an account of supposedly the last 'Painter' killed in the Great Smokey's in the winter of 1920. A mountaineer named Tom Sparks was attacked by a panther as he herded sheep on Spence Hill.
During the assault he managed to inflict a deep shoulder wound on the big cat with presumably a fire-arm. Many months later a W.Orr slew a mountain lion near Fontana Village(a tourist attraction now, with the beautiful, man-made, 900 foot deep Fontana Lake).
Orr found that it's left shoulder blade had been cut in two. This was thought to be the same cat Sparks had injured and the last of it's kind in the area.
Another turn of the century story has two mica prospectors chancing on an abandoned cabin during a savage blizzard. Due to blood spots, horrible cries, crashes on the roof and foot-falls, the men concluded the place was haunted.
In the morning mountain lion tracks were found and the mystery solved. The cats had a den near-by on a wild and rugged precipice and had been using the cabin as an additional home. Soon after a systematic hunt was organized with all four panthers treed and killed after a long chase.
Extreme rarity- Cat purportedly hit in road- Georgia mountains
Some thoughts on the subject and a theory
The list of sightings, videos, and other evidence is far too numerous to include here. Presumably the U.S. Fish and Wildlife says there's nothing concrete in any of it. A look on the internet though, at least to me, says differently.
Whatever the case may be the reports continue to come in; there being a late night crossing reported by two well respected gentlemen just recently in the north- west corner of the State. A relative unmistakably sighted one on Lake James recently as well.
When he reported it to a Wildlife person they told him it had to be a bobcat; not so according to the relative who clearly saw a very long tail on the large feline as it moved between the thickets.
Hind sight is twenty-twenty and I do wish that way back then I'd returned and taken pictures of the track and reported it. The following is only a loose theory of mine and I in no way claim it to be the complete answer.
Something happened in the first half of the 20th century where the few remaining indigenous cats had a new survival strategy come to the fore. They removed themselves largely to the very remotest and inaccessible parts of the mountains.
They now knew- whether instinctively or by independent thought , that when the baying of hounds was near, their usual last ditch defense of eventually treeing meant death.
Later on in the 20th century they possibly mated up with released pets or escapees. As to why they are rarely killed on the roads, like almost all other mammals they've generally gone nocturnal.
When they do venture near them late at night, they know the danger and cross quickly.. How many bears does one see on the side of the road- it's not often they're hit; and although bears are not dumb animals, I believe the cats are not only smarter but much cannier.
Some will say this is all wishful thinking and perhaps in part they're right. Occasionally there are hoaxes as one man has admitted to near Asheville, N.C. recently.
But I know what I saw and believe that the hundreds of reports through the years and up until today are largely made by honest folk, and not always hoaxes, mis-identifications or flights of fancy.
If Eric Rudolph can hide out in those mountains practically over looking the town of Murphy, N.C. amidst a massive federal man-hunt, only to be caught five years later rummaging through a trash bin.
Or late night police video taken of seriously strange bipedal entities crossing the road; or experiences like Warren Smith's father- told in An American Farm Life in Georgia - where a black panther leapt across the road right in front of him around 1970; then who can honestly say for sure?
The wilds of the Appalachians may still hold mysteries for us to this day.
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My dad was born in 1926 and they talked about panthers running around their house in Franklin NC when you was a kid. They were very poor and the house had large cracks in the walls. He said the panther would sniff through the cracks.
Also they were born in what is now called Fines Creek, NC but was originally called Panther Creek.
Interesting and then some, thank you Eddy! Of course you can bookmark this and the Cherokee stories on Word. My wish is for you and Dai to someday visit the Appalachians where the Cherokee people you write about so well in your stories and poetry lived and live. You know who would be y'alls host and guide too don't you.:)
Brilliant as always Alaster;so interesting !!
Would you mind if I bookmark this one into my slot on 'Word'?? As I can't bookmark as we used to; also your two hubs on the Cherokees ??
Take care my dear friend and enjoy your day.
Eddy.
Thank you very much 2pats. Thats very true about taking the time to observe nature. Ha ha, can 'see' Tricia digging for those glasses right now! Suppose a big bird in England would be a sight to see.
Your description of sighting this animal is an excellent piece of writing. We are always surprised at what can be seen outdoors if one takes the time to look. Tricia doesn't like to wear her glasses, and one of our funniest moments involved me spotting a huge bird, and Tricia searching her back pack to find her glasses so that she could see it.
The Jags are back, awesome WT! Correct a mundo on the trigger; that and appearing prey size, like a smaller person stooping down to tie their shoes on a trail. Super info here, thanks WT.
You certainly could be on to something with the melanism and other info, thanks Randy.
Oh they are DEFINITELY here, and it is rumoured far and wide that even Jaguars are back in Texas.
There have been Jaguars spotted in Arizona, and recently.
I'd absolutely LOVE to see a cougar here. So long as you see one and do not make the mistake of turning and running from it...(which triggers a cat's natural "pursue the prey" instinct) - it can only be a beautiful experience.
All you have to do is yell or throw something at a curious one....I'm told they'll always flee rather than mess with an adult human.
You just gotta know enough cat psychology to never turn and run from one!
I'm in a pretty rural area with a large creek bottom and hundreds of vacant acres not far - a lot of people have horses and cows around here...and they're all now convinced that some big cats are in the area. I do not know if anyone's farm/ranch critters have been killed, or not. I'd imagine there are plenty of deer and wild hogs to satisfy the big cats!
WT that's really unfortunate about not being believed and having to go for "help" as a youngster. A crooked Dr told my mother I was allergic to everything and I had to endure weekly shots for years. The cry of these cats are known to sound like a woman screaming and I haven't the slightest doubt that's what you heard and are hearing. Aren't Mountain Lions officially admitted to in Texas? Thanks much for the fine comment WT and if any sightings or encounters come your way please post them my friend.
I can't help you there, Alastar, but I do think there are instances of melanism occurring in the panther species. I wouldn't think this rare genetic trait would be prevalent though.
The closest black cats would perhaps be the jaguar as, from what I can determine, no black panthers are recorded. Who knows for sure, though!
SSSSS
Well I especially liked the part about the haunted cabin!!!
Three or four hundred yards from where I'm sitting are two different abandoned places...old frame houses, one is really just a cabin.
They're both about the same distance from me - but not next to each other, but in the same direction.
There's been five to ten times over the past fifteen years here that I've heard what sounded like someone being murdered in the woods...and I really wouldn't be able to tell you how badly it shook me up.
Seriously, my parents were taking me to see doctors over this stuff....I kept talking about screams in the woods that sounded like murder, and I was having all sorts of suspicions about the people living around me....
*sigh*
I'm now sure that what I'd heard was cougars in the area. I don't guess anyone else ever hears them at night...but I do.
Those books are a series and quite good. Would love to read the Georgia one. This is what's interesting to me Randy. WS talks about the 40s 50s and 60s with them being black fur. I believe he said they even differentiated between two types. So with what you've seen and is being seen it makes me wonder about their breeding habits or if something else changed over the years.
An interesting book titled "Weird Georgia" lists early accounts of lions and tigers being hunted down in the state with numerous newspaper reports being given, according to the book. I don't know if it's true or not, but I do know some of the things in the book are.
There are different color variations in the panther species, just as there are in other animal species. Now all panthers, both western and eastern species, are considered the same by many zoologists.
I'm not a expert on these creatures, but I do know what those I saw looked like. They may appear darker in the late afternoon or at night, but those I saw were during the light hours. So there's that.
SSSSS
Randy i do so hope you get lucky with some photos and if you do bro i wanna be the first to see them on here. That's intriguing with your color descrips 'cause WS said they were all black and were even considered a different sub-species or something. Am sure he'll be most interested in your info. Ha GON forum people who call other sighting witnesses names are in the box cracker jacks!
No, not what I would describe as black furred, Alastar. Those I saw were all a tawny color with slightly darker, almost gray, fur running along their spines with some around the head area.
I'm almost never without a camera of some sort now when I'm out in the woods or driving around the farm. Who knows, perhaps I'll get lucky like I did when I photographed the Beautiful piebald deer on my last birthday.
I get a kick out of reading the GON forums where some folks get called all sorts of names when they claim to have actually observed a wild panther in Georgia. I know they most certainly are around here.
Randy SSSSS
Yes! Thank you, thank you Randy! Your recollections are remarkable and telling. An experienced woodsman like yourself is not going to make any mis-identifications, especially at 30 feet lol! Why it's not acknowledged by the feds or states I just don't know. Intriguing with the hunter, one big was purportedly hit in the Ga. mountains not so long ago and a well respected Hubber has written he hit one driving through Ga. late at night too. Great point with the overabundant deer populations and the real need for these magnificent animals. The public will never have to worry about them getting acclimated to people like the bears sometimes do. Not these Eastern ones anyway. Randy, most appreciated my friend, and one last question if you see this: are the panthers there black furred?
Great article, Alastar! I've personally observed 5 panthers in my long life down here around the southeast Georgia swamps. Myself and 2 others saw a pair of them trot across the road withing 30 feet of the vehicle we were in at the time.
But of course, the Georgia DNR will tell you they do ont exist in these parts, only further down in Florida. LOL!
I've hunted and roamed the woods for over 50 years and I do know the difference between a bobcat and a panther.
I believe one was shot by a hunter several years ago near Columbus, Ga. but I'm not sure of the date. But they are indeed here with one being spotted by several folks at different times close behind my home.
We only found out about the others seeing the cat a few months later. All of us are experienced woods men and could not possibly have been mistaken the creature.
The deer population is very good now and we actually need the big cats to keep their numbers down as hunters aren't bagging enough whitetails to do the job.
Anyway, interesting hub and rated up!
Randy SSSSS
It certainly applies to you Tey. You've got that "free and unfettered" spirit gal. I like Peggy's phrase too and the cats should be allowed to roam that way. And yes, tragedies occasionally happen out West, but the cats will 999 times out of a 1000, if not more, get as far away from people as they can.
Peggy, I like your phrase "free and unfettered"--I'm sure that applies to us as well as them! We want free and unfettered--may not get it, but I like the phrase. The cats should be able to roam that way; they usually don't hunt us down!
I hope so too Peggy. It can be difficult to imagine they're still around but there's so many sighting reports and as you know after reading here I have a personal reason to believe they may still be around yet. Thank you so much for the beautiful comment n all Peggy.
Hopefully your sighting and others are correct in that these magnificent creatures still roam those parts of the country free and unfettered.
Hi Tey! That's right, they're our special charges and we should do all we can to protect them. Out west tragedies happen on occasion, and the wildlife people do what they have to do. Not the same as shooting them out of trees, only to have them survive then pitiably try to get away, only to be set upon by dogs. Yep, folks have been great reporting on sightings here. Awesome comments. Thank you Rainbow~~~
They're all the same except to each other, Alastar! Somehow, all the big cats we have in this country seem in a very weird way as kind of family. Guess it's 'cause even tho' I've very healthy fear of them, like many others, I find it unbelievably cruel and cowardly to kill them for no reason. Glad I'm still following this. Enjoying everyone's comments, and, Lady_T, I've got to go to your hub right now! Thanks again for all the info, everybody!
Its a captivating possibility that these cats are still around in the Eastern U.S. for sure Martie, thank you. They're all the same with the names: Cougar, Mountain Lion, Panther, and Painter, all the same. Painters are a more old-timey name, a lot of the mountain folk would call them that. Holy smokes that's right- your in leopard land there! How horrible. Assume they recovered well in a physical sense at least. So they killed it Tarzan style..jeez. Read once about a man that a Lion had mauled and shaken like a rag doll..he survived; and later said that when it happened there was no pain,- he was like in a peaceful place, somewhere else. Appreciate the read & comment Martie. Really wish your friends night-mares could end.
Articles about animals always fascinate me, and this one was captivating. What is the difference between a puma and a painter? A friend of mine had survived an attack by a leopard – half of his skull was ripped off during the attack. Fortunately he had a dagger in his sock.... I shudder when his story comes to mind. After 35 years nightmares are still his lot. Voted UP and awesomely interesting.
Generally the cats are extremely wary of humans. If there are indeed Mountain Lions still in the Appalachians- and many of us believe there are- they're the wariest of all. Recently read where attacks out West are generally triggered more by size rather than say, jogging. Hey lyric, if you come on any reports up your way- Eastern West Virginas a hot spot for em- please report. That would be great if you would. Ha! Your prepared alright, don't blame you a bit either. All it takes is being chased up a tree one time by a big tusked Boar! Thanks a mil lyricwriter.
Its amazing how cute and innocent these cats look, and then they will rip you up. I live in WV and this is why I always carry a gun in the hills. Great review on the mountain lions Alastar. Voted up.
Your very welcome Lady Tenaz. You did an impressive and professional job on your blog. Yes, I really liked it and will be a regular visitor to it. As others discover what you have to offer, theres no doubt but that they will feel the same.~AP
Thank you so much! I really appreciate your comments and the fact that you went to my blog and read that story means a lot. Thank you again from the bottom of my heart, I really took a lot of time and effort into that article. I spent 3 months working on it (even speaking to a gun expert who helped me along the way with info) and it paid off I see, since you really liked it. I hope others read it and enjoy it as much as you did! :-)
Thank you Lady_Tenaz! I went to your profile site to check out your blog and I must tell you how impressed I am. Very professional. You've got three books of poetry plus I read a story that's going into your Cali mysteries book. To be honest, it was the best article I've ever read on that subject. Gonna check out some more this week. Yes, as the greed for animal parts primarily in Asia along with more people competing for finite habitat with wild animals the future looks bleak for many species; but some incredible people are fighting for them so there's always hope. Aw thats great with the cousin, appreciate that Lady T. Do hope she likes it and comments on it or perhaps another.~:)
Great story Alastar. I love animals, even the scary ones like the Cougar's and Mountain Lions. So sad that so many animals have become extinct in our country and all over the world. I am going to forward this link to my cousin since she lives in N.C. and I am sure she would love to read this!
I have been meaning to tell you thanks for your support on commenting on a few of my "touchy" hubs. Life has handed me a box of business lately, and I haven't had as much time as I would like to read everyone's hubs. That being said, I wonder if those poor cats didn't move to Wyoming. I use to live in the mountains there and at one time it was pretty common to see one walting down the streets. Hopefully they are like Bigfoot and camped out somewhere, sick of humans hunting them. I love your pictures of the little kittens. After seeing that, why would anyone want to kill them? What a crying shame...
Thanks again for your support! Great hub! I am looking forward to reading if you see one in person.
Hey jami, I've been writing about all this synchronicity- coincidences that keep happening on the HP lately. Here's another one. Just as you were reading and commenting on this one I was reading and commenting on another panther one. Pretty good comment? It's a marvelous one jami! Thank you kindly and your no amateur with your beautiful poetry.:)
I voted this up all the way across the board (except funny) , I loved it , i also love the big cats , they are amazing creatures , eloquently beautiful . This was an amazingly awesome Hub , very well written and descriptive , pretty good comment coming from an amatuer such as myself eh? lol joking ! but this was great and i enjoyed reading it very much ! :) thank you for sharing !:)
Thank you Tey and no one's got to take my word for it. Just do a little research on the net. Shoot, I'd heard old-timers up there talk about em sometimes but never really listened until that epiphany on the river. Yeah, that's where my bio dad's from Murphy, and there's some pretty big wilderness around. Eric Rudolph hide from massive man-hunts and was practically over-looking the town. Five years later he gets caught by a local cop rummaging through a trash receptacle. You can't tell me with all the sightings, etc, a small remnant couldn't have stayed out of sight more or less. Why is it we can be imprisoned on eye-witness testimony but it doesn't count for something like this. Thanks Rainbow and cunning?..you bet they are.
Just finished 'Bladenboro' and this was showing, so decided to go for it. I agree w/you 100%. I do respect all the work many people do to keep up with what is going on with the animal kingdom, but have often wondered about the use of the word "extinction." I'm very familiar w/pre-tourist Fontana country and the area around Murphy--close friends live (truly, live) 30 mi from Murphy. Also know too many other areas of the SE (like others know other areas of our great country) enough to wonder where the line is drawn in our path-crossing. We read so often of 'dangerous' animal encroaching on human territory because we are taking over their land; yet few seem to give any thought to the possibility some of those animals may choose, as you brought out, to give way and seek more remote areas. And those remote areas are definitely out there! Tracks are tracks--human or otherwise. I'll take your word for it! I say some smart critter left a print where usually he/she didn't! And cats? Yes--quite cunning.
Welcome back Rainbow! You take your time and when you do hope its interesting. When you and your son go hiking don't worry about the cats. They'll be as far away from people as possible. I read in an outdoor mag today though that if a Black Bear-and more than likely a hungry male- confronts you yell and wave arms. If it charges don't play dead or climb a tree..RUN!
Coulda read it by the time I finished scrolling thru the comments--didn't even read any! Can't wait to get into this one, and my son (maybe I, too) is planning a long hike that way. I WILL read later now I'm back!
Your 100% right about the habitat destruction. Although its slowed down some with the economic situation, at least around here. As far as pop. growth in the U.S.-Canada, without immigration- and I'm not saying its all bad- we'd be getting near an even birth-death replacement ratio. Its the same here ahorseback with any thing official. My friend those eastern bears are still around in the place you mentioned and other areas like the Green Swamp and Croatan Nat.Forest. People used to hunt em for food including some relatives of mine going back a ways. And your right again, they did and do get very big!....:D
A. P. ,Black bears here are being pushed from thier homes and habitat by urban growth, If you think about it there are just too many people! Maine, New hampshire, and Vermont are experiencing more sightings of these and other animals long thought extinct! Fish and Game biologists will not accept that anything exists without actual dead bodies to proove it here! Ever check out the black bears of northeast North Carolina , "Albamarle" county! Some of the biggest in the continental US.....:-}
Yes almighty! Wonderful info ahorseback. In many's arithmetic X number of sightings = they're here and they're near. Two summers ago I was in Maine & Canada & the amount of woodland up there blew me away. Read about the wolves on the border round your way but hybrids...wow. The Bears down here are ranging farther east from the Mts. into the Piedmont than they ever have before...don't know why though. Thank you very much ahorseback & if anything comes up you think folks would like to know please let us know. ps- that is a most charming & fun Hub you just wrote, we could use more like it.
Oh you see , I knew I'd catch up! We in the Northeast of Vermont , have been spotting {not I ] cougars , Mt Lions , in the last few years , fairly regularly ! No specimans , but many sightings! Another recent actual kill is an eastern Wolf hybrid ! Awesome hub!....:-}
A lot of those attacks are out West. A small person running-like joggers- can activate the attack mode in Cougars. Polly a lot of it is as you say and another thing is they are adapting to living close to human civilization.That was lucky of you to escape such danger. I'm glad you used your head and didn't panic. Was this out west Polly or where? :D
These animals do deserve a place to live but they need to be away from people, who can choose an animal over a human? I realize in other countries people kill anything but our problem in America is these wild things killing people, they are running out of room to live wild. Like in parks the many bears that have torn people up and killed some. I once was within just a few feet of a panther and I assume it saw me although I didn't see it I heard it so close and there was a fence between us lucky for me I would say (although it probably could have jumped it easy enough, maybe it was resting) and I sure wasn't out hunting but I certainly would have liked a weapon on me. Terrified I slowly moved toward my house which was a field away and you never run when getting away from a wild animal, I knew that much, but once I saw I could I kicked up some mud let me tell you!
Yes Yes kitty! Awesome, there you go! Used to jump out in front of the cars, ask the Pa people up there and they'll tell you..righteous. I guess the PA Fish & Wildlife just thinks their all big Tom or Bob Cats if that. OK, so that's N.C.-Missouri-Pennsylvania we've got folks here on HP so far reporting. Thank you so much kitty and please if you here of any more sightings or evidence let us all know!:)))
AP - I can comment here with a little knowledge on the subject. My grandfather grew up on a farm in the mountains of Pennsylvania and knew very well that mountain lions dwelled in those mountains. When I was a little girl, he used to take me camping in Pennsylvania every summer and many times we would see the mountain lions jump out in front of our car while driving in the mountains. The last time we went back, we heard that the state had claimed that there were no longer any mountain lions...that they had become extinct within the state of PA; however, if you ask any of the PA residents, they will all disagree as sightings of mountain lions occur all of the time! There was even a store with a freshly stuffed one...
Wonderful hub. Super interesting and well researched. Voted up!
Thank you Suzie and your in a grand place to hear or read about any new sightings or evidence. And yes,I've heard from a few living near the really rugged parts of the Mts. on their belief in them. On a personal level I'll only say that a big cat crossed Fishing Creek in 1988. Hope may not be needed but still with you on the sentiment.
Excellent Hub - thanks for the interesting read. People around here have claimed to have seen a mountain lion but who really knows? Let us hope they live on.
This is a beauty of a compliment Mr.Epi and to be perfectly honest...I Love It! You are most kind and if you don't mind I want to ask you this: If you hear or read of anything up your gorgeous North Country way about this subject would you please let us know. Triple cheers to the best people's poet in the biz!
Mr. Packer, your writing is just 'damned' exciting - whether you write about man or beast - or the beast in man - or the beauty of the beast - you write so vividly and detailed that my breath is always taken away by your love of life and the life that you love - you truly are a man for all seasons - and always, a literary force to be reckoned with.
lake erie time 12:04pm
Thanks for checking in Lee. That's some wild and beautiful country up there- Claytor Lake is as far as I've been; and your grand dad's sighting is no surprise bro.
Cool dude.My grandfather think he saw one near mt Rodgers once.
Hi breenawelker welcome to the HP. Its a bit like coming on an unexpected clue and finding ones self in a mystery isn't it. Glad you had fun with the story and thank you.:D
Fascinating and great hub! I had fun upon reading this. Thanks.
Mar your never late in my book. And they are fantastic comments and so, so appreciated. They're many still fighting what is an increasingly losing battle to protect and make sure these animals have a wild and free place on earth. We do what we can. Thank you mar and if you hear of any sightings in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania let us know!
Do hope you had a beautiful and relaxing hike dear Hyph. As you told me once those times in the forest can be very reflective. There most certainly are large Bobcat in those mountains, yet, they could be near you and one would never know it. And if the track I found and the reports of so many others has any meaning then a few somewhat larger cats may be hiding in those mountains too. That would have been an experience if one had graced you with its presence..at a distance of course! Merci Ms. Hyph my friend.
Do hope you had a beautiful and relaxing hike dear Hyph. As you told me once those times in the forest can be very reflective. There most certainly are large Bobcat in those mountains, yet, they could be near you and one would never know it. And if the track I found and the reports of so many others has any meaning then a few somewhat larger cats may be hiding in those mountains too. That would have been an experience if one had graced you with its presence..at a distance of course! Merci Ms. Hyph my friend.
Alastar, we were two miles into the forest on Monday and I remembered this Hub. How I wished that one of these magnificent creatures had made an appearance. From a distance of course!
Alastar,
I am reading this late but grateful to see all of these beautiful comments/ responses as well. What a tragedy that we cannot share the world with such majestic creatures, wanting to hunt them down for our luxury.
You have done a fabulous job raising my awareness and seemingly many others. Voted UP & UAB, mar.
Oh thank you RealHousewife, thats some great info. The Missouri River starts in the Rockies doesn't it..a long way across the Great Plains to Missouri state for a big cat to wander, eh. Ha ha Real, I love snakes but your forgiven..lol. Generally in my experience, the snakes and spiders given half a chance did their best to get away from me...lol. Keep updating if anything happens Real. Bless you!
Alastar - I asked my mom about the Mountsin Lion this morning - she said the one in Chesterfield was spotted in a regular subdivision! It was very near the Missouri River. My parents think it may have traveled down the river side to end up here.
I love almost all animals - I can do without snakes, spiders - generally things we can't communicate with on any level that would kill a person if given 1/2 a chance:)
Nell your first two sentences really got me to chuckling; your so right. Potential government expenses talk, evidence walks. I'm only peripherally knowledgeable about the big cats in England. Thanks to a fellow hubber I know about your smaller native cats like in north Scotland. Unless the big ones seen are coming though something as esoteric as a time or dimensional portal, admittingly two unlikely possibilities then the obvious answer is released pets; or less likely escapees. Could the English rural areas support a breeding population of large cats, no, probably not. But the 2,000 mile chain of ancient mountains called the Appalachians can and do, in mine and so many others opinion. Thank you so much Nell, and yes, on to the next mystery while we leave the last one to whatever may come!
Hi, it doesn't surprise me that the authorities said it was extinct, in fact they would still believe it until it came up and bit them on the leg! lol then they would say, 'well yes we knew it was still around really!' it reminds me of the story of the 'mysterious big cats' in England, for years even in magazines like Fortean Times there were stories that were labelled 'ghostly cats, and giant cats' etc, so spooky, then one day someone took a photo of a black panther I think it was, and then they had to scrub all the speculation, now the theory is that someone had been keeping them as pets, then because they couldn't look after them, set them free to wander! so now you don't see them in the magazines! the mystery has gone, on to the next one!
Appreciate that Richie. Many animal populations are exploding in America, for example we have more deer running around than we know what to do with. Other species are increasing their range such as coyotes and even bears. Its the little ones like bees, bats, snakes, etc. etc. that are in trouble. Yet you go to many third world countries and it may be the opposite. This is just one of many problems but thanks to Asia's insatiable need for animal parts in folk medicine etc, poaching is pushing some large and small species towards extinction. The Siberian Tiger and an African Rhino species being good cases in point.Animal smuggling is also taking a toll. If this story stirred your feelings Rich then it did its job. Thank you my friend and you take care too Richie.
Well laid out and as always, well written and presented information, Alastar.
It is a shame that we as a race are so destructive towards other the other species of this planet, as well as our own race.
I love animals and nature, and if I had to, for the good of the other species and our planet, I would go without cars, aerosols and anything else that causes damage to this garden of eve, without any hesitation.
A hub that really stirred my feelings. Good job.
Take care Alastar. :) Richie
Hi Real, you sure do love them. I just answered a comment a little while ago where we talked about bears; and that reminded me that we're starting to see some around here where they haven't normally ranged. The mountain lions released as pets in the wild, unless they met up with and quickly adopted...it just doesn't stand to reason they'd have the survival skills of an indigenous population. Nor does it seem likely there would be enough escapees for a self propagating population. Thank you again Real and for every one reported I'd wager two or three that aren't. :D
Thanks - I love animals:) I am really interested in the Mountain Lions too - I've kept my ears open for anything new in the news. I'll pop over if I learn anything interesting. It's crazy isn't it! I bet there are several under the radar.
There used to be a park very near where I live (about 45 minutes away) a woman who kept animals - such as tigers on her land. You could go and see them - they had a lot of problems though and I think it got shut down.
Yes! Yes! RealHousewife. Fantastic, thank you. Over a dozen sightings- with confirmed video- in Missouri..even if only half are positive that's a long way across the Great Plains or down from Canada isn't it. Real I hope she does get one of them, believe me , they won't be anywhere near your mother if they can help it. Unlike out West these cats will be extremely shy of folks...in my opinion. Will look at the MDC footage ASAP. Bless and thanks so much Real. You and your family- including that wonderful collection of friends- have a joyful and safe holiday. ps- Please comment or report any developments if you desire.:)))
Hi Canook! I was beginning to worry a bit about you having not noticed you on in awhile.Thank you for the compliment. We have a lot of them too Angie. As a matter of fact their coming farther and farther east from the big Mts. Some are even showing up around here! Happy 4th to you and all too Canook, hope yours is happy and very merry.:D
Hi! Tarheel
Beautiful Hub!We do not have Mountain Loin here, but we have Black Bear.
Happy 4th of July Canook
Bet you were mesmerized AA. I've been up close to trapped ones in small cages and wouldn't recommend sticking a finger in the cage..lol. AA, saw recently on the tube where three men with high- powered rifles tested their courage and man-hood. They got up close to a huge wild Bull Elephant, presumably with permission for a kill if it charged. Fortunately after posturing, it turned and left. What does that say? To me it says even though the three men were within 50 ft or so it knew the right thing to do. It had somehow adapted to the situation with its high intelligence..in my opinion..Since 1988 I've come to the conclusion the remnants of the Eastern Cougar did the same...adapted that is. AA, sometimes after a rain one could pull 2 dozen cat-fish out of that creek quickly..but no, I never caught that sucker but did catch something more important.
I checked with Missouri Department of Conservation and there have been 13 mountain lion sightings in Missouri. There is even a video recording of one confirmed sighting in Chesterfield, MO. My mom lives there:). She's had lots of deer on her property, snakes, and the regular critters in her garden. It's a fairly populated area - lots of wooded areas left though. My mom just installed a camera that will take photos when it's triggered by movement so she can see what's out there. I hope she doesn't find that mountain lion in her garden! Lol. You should check out the website - I think you can see the video footage (I am using an iPad - no flash player so I can only guess).
Fascinating story. The only wild cat that I've ever seen was a bobcat, and I was mesmerized by it. I think it's terrible that we hunt and kill off animals for the hell of it. I hope more information will be forthcoming. Did you ever catch that giant bass?
Hi there Tina. Yesterday I was on your hub about black and was really getting a bit excited not only because it looked so good but there are questions I wanted to know about the color.Got side-tracked by the phone. Tina it is sad. As populations in certain parts of the world increase,the pressure on many animals reaches the critical zone.Also desperate people supply themselves with more of the land and poachers are taking a heavy toll again on certain species.Yes, I'm one who believes the mountain lions in small numbers are still east of the Mississippi River. Tina, larger animals are exploding in numbers over here like deer and coyote for example. Thank you so much for the read and your support.:D
Well Lucky, thank goodness, as far as I know, no ones been caught or admitted to killing one in the App. Mts.. But like you pointed out with the link, occasionally something else happens such as with the panther in Connecticut. You know Kathy, one of the most frequent places where they're sighted in these Mts. is smack dab in the middle of the Great Smokey Mt. National Park. That's at Clingman's Dome. With finances being what they are..I doubt anybody wants to take on the expenses if there is indeed a breeding population still extant.:D
It is so sad how we treat animals on this planet! People hunt them, or destroy their habitat. Somehow it is even worse with this great and amazing big animals. I hope that there are some left but if so, I guess there are quite few remaining. Even though the subject is sad, I found your hub very interesting and as always very good!
Voted up.
Tina
Good day Spirit, 'seek and ye shall find' is certainly true and sometimes one finds without consciously seeking. That's right, there are & have been many great thinkers that say your allusion to illusion is a fact. Thanks for the kudo; and RealHousewife has gotten tired of it all and is headed to Hot Springs, Ark. for some R & R...LOL. Josh there Irish. Have you read her delightful hub on the family animals?
I agree with you! How can we claim, with 100% certainty anything such as the extinction of an entire species..there really is no way. Part of me hopes that, when/if the 'proper' authorities admit that there still ARE lions out there; that they proclaim them extremely endangered and...humans..HANDS OFF!
Although the Ozarks aren't as high as the Apps I think in many ways they're more beautiful. Any info you can come up with Real will be appreciated...hopefully some others will be interested too. That track at the hardest place to cross and lest likeliest to be found, taught me all I needed to know about how smart and well hidden they can be.
Realhousewife where have you been hiding?
Alastar - yes it might have been the Ozarks - I'm about 4 hours away from there. I'm going to look it up and I'll let you know what I find. Those cats are smart so I'll just bet they hide pretty well.
Another great hub and I think it bears out my belief "Seek and you shall find". In every area of life when man earnestly searches for something he will find it regardless of what other say or believe. This is one of the illusory qualities of the world we live in. Thank you Alastar.
I bet that was exciting watching the foxes they're shy and fast- hard to see sometimes in the woods. Its very fine your son is getting to observe nature too. I would guess that maybe its not so much less freedom for a lot of these animals now but that there numbers are greatly increasing and their adapting to living in close proximity to man. Thank goodness you had that fence between you and the panther, you would probably have been alright but you never know. Was that out west Polly? It can be scary as the big cats they say can sound like a woman screaming. Your still a brave lady in my book and a spirited one too. Thank you for reading and sharing Polly.
A few years back when I lived closer to the woods I say a couple of small beautiful foxes and in the last few days my son has seen a catfisher I think he called it and a coyote. Maybe these things are getting less and less freedom or room to stay hid away. Many years ago I was in a field where we lived and I heard a panther and although I didn't see it or look for it I could tell it was really close, within feet but a fence between us may be all that saved me but I slowly headed to the house and after I got a good way from it I ran like mad!
Thank you Gail and if any ones encouraged its me by animal lovers like yourself.:D
Hi Kathy, there aren't enough trail cameras to cover all the far reaches of the mountains and if the people who set them on the sides of 4,5,6000 foot Mts.leave the slightest trace of their presence, forget it.The Panthers may cross a trail but they'll never follow one. Besides, what about the wealth of vids people have gotten of them? Are they all false? The Cougar hit by the car in Connecticut doesn't exist, remember. If the mountain lions were confirmed...who would then be responsible for all the expenses involved with everything connected to them? Thank you so much Ms. Kathy for these links and everything else.
thanks alastar for your hub --it was encouraging for an animal lover like myself!
If any are left, they are far, far up in the mountains. Some of the Native Americans who live in the highest peaks might know. One recently told me a black bear visits her place often. So there might be a few cougars. If so, there cannot be many and sadly many a human's first instinct id to kill anything he can.
When and how can we learn to share this world with other creatures. It makes me sick. Alastar, you have written well of a sad subject and hopefully there are some painters left.
Hi Lucky, I just got out of the shower and have to go do some business for a bit but I kid you not my lady, I knew yours was the next comment. But that's another story, isn't it..lol. With your great love for all sentient creatures- particularly of the feline persuasion- its no surprise you wept. But take heart Kathy, thanks to what we call mother nature and the breadth and remoteness in parts of these mts.- I believe have allowed the canniest of the canny to survive and propagate in very small numbers that seem to be increasing.. Of course these could be the progeny of pet releases and so forth but that experience with the track and others experiences, tell me there is something remarkable going on. Thank you dear Kathy for your kind words and thoughts on the matter. Also for the links. I'll check them out this evening.
I hope you're right, Alastar. I read the announcement eaqrlier this year declaring the Eastern Cougar extinct. I cried that day...and wrote a short eulogy to the beautiful animal. Your hub gives hope. It is the ultimate shame when, through our ignorance and selfishness, we have caused the end of life for an entire species or sub species. I'd like to think that the caginess and intelligence of these magnificant animals has given them an edge which allows life to continue out of reach of humans and the gift of living freely. thank you for a thought provoking and well written hub which also shows your sensitivity and special nature. Below is the article :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/eastern-c
And another which may be of interest:http://www.disinfo.com/2011/06/eastern-mountain-li
Hi RealHousewife, have wanted to read your latest but been busy and will do this evening. While researching I saw some reports over your way. Was it in the Ozarks or where, if you would be so kind and remember any more on it... Real, they're being reported all over..even up in Mass. and there- about. Thank you and its not a done deal as far as many of us go.
I believe I read in the news not long ago that a mountain lion was discovered in Missouri! Really interesting hub:)
Thank you moonlake and there you go. The larger intelligent animals like coyotes and yes, the cougars are adapting as hunting has decreased and nature provides them. There's even reports of a wolf comeback in parts of the Canadian- U.S. borders. When one is confronted by unmistakable evidence- whatever it is or about- they then know the supposedly non- existent is anything but.
I hope your theory is right, Alastar. I was crushed when I heard that they had become extinct, and I'm praying that you're right. Let's hope that Fish & Wildlife jumped the gun on this one.
Rob
The DNR here has said for years that we do not have cougars but we do and have seen them. Now people are seeing their little ones. They were often in our yard. My husband would snow blow early in the morning and one followed him down the trail. He found the tracks when he turned around and the lights from the snow plower hit the ground.
Enjoyed your hub.
Alastar Packer Hub Author 9 days ago
Hello there glendar and appreciate you so much for commenting with your story. Franklin is smack dab in some high mountain country and no one can tell me there can't be a small population of panthers still up there. Too many eye-witness reports, far too many. Okay, so Wildlife says if they're there they have to be released pets. Granted, some may be descendants of released pets and escapees but who's to say they didn't mate up with a remnant population of very wary big cats in the 20th century and have continued on in small numbers up until today?
Excuse the rant there glendar. That's very interesting about the cat sniffing between the cracks in your dad's growing up house. Take it that would have been in the 1930's and 40s. You also can't tell me folks living as close to nature as they were can't tell the difference between a panther coming round and a bobcat for instance. Thanks again glendar- the early settlers didn't name creeks and such lightly did they.